Call to action: let's catch the thief


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Winston
Winston
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Coordinate your home law enforcement's efforts:
https://forum.helloiota.com/11980/Catch-the-thief-Police-and-Law-Enforcement-coordination


iotawalletloss.claims
Ongoing compiled list of stolen addresses: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IOpYdi8x9R0ivpC2Fl75N9iVDXo82py0yybC9nsxV-I/edit?usp=sharing to th



Updated List of Addresses: January 30
https://forum.helloiota.com/10846/Updated-List-of-Stolen-Addresses
(Addresses from page 13 to 16 of this thread)



Update January 25:
David in an interview:

"I completely sympathize with the people that have lost their funds. We are doing everything we can in order to gather information to track down whoever this scumbag is, but of course, that is not easy, and we’ve seen before that it is borderline impossible.

But, if we are able to dig up any kind of information that will lead to something, we will, of course, hand that over to the police and assist with any kind of investigation that will happen in order to try to help these poor people that have lost their funds.
...
What we’re doing right now is gathering all the intel we can, we’re looking through all of the different leads that we have. In such situations, the community starts doing their own investigations, become the detectives out looking for clues–looking for IP addresses, seeing if this person has been in the community for a long time, if there is any correlation between these things.

We are trying to get an overview because it’s all very chaotic, and this is still ongoing, but that’s pretty much all we can do. All we can do is look through all of the information that is available to us, and of course report it to the registered domains, see if we can find some IP addresses."

Source: https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/iota-founder-stolen-funds-lots-people-will-screw/ 

January 25:
Dom Tweet:

"We have actually already started filing a police report (the IOTA Foundation on behalf of the users) and are working on a bigger update blog post with some of the actions we're taking."
Source: https://twitter.com/DomSchiener/status/955134744034971648

-------------------------
Let's encourage all victims of the recent theft to consider the pursuit of legal action against the thief. Since this event is outside the scope of the IOTA Foundation, users are either going to have to individually or collectively proceed with litigation (or at least some sort of involvement of law enforcement authorities). It's easier if everyone works together.
EDIT:
It is up to you, the victims of this crime, to report the details of this event to authorities. This thread is a "call to action", meaning that we all need to join together to gather details and help each other through the legal process. To make this even more explicit, the IOTA Foundation isn't in a position to pursue legal action.

That may seem daunting right now, so to make the process easier for everyone, let's leverage the power and breadth of this community to gather as many details about the situation as possible. Hopefully this can help elucidate the scope of yesterday's event, as well as encourage more of us to get involved with potential litigation. It might be a long shot, but let's at least attempt to retrieve stolen funds and ensure that justice served.

Here's a spreadsheet that's some community members are updating with information: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IOpYdi8x9R0ivpC2Fl75N9iVDXo82py0yybC9nsxV-I/edit?usp=sharing

And here's another website where information is being collected: https://www.iotawalletloss.claims/


-----------------------------------------
Currently known details of the situation:
Here's a wonderful summary of the situation, written by Ralf -- https://medium.com/@ralf/what-happened-last-night-on-iota-b6157ade1e03
On January 19th, 2018, some IOTA users lost their funds to an unknown attacker.
The root cause that allowed this to happen was users who chose to rely on online generators to create their seeds.
From what I’ve heard, many users who lost their funds created their seeds at iotaseed.io (not linked here for obvious reasons). Chances are, the folks behind this and potentially other seed generators have sat tight for a while, collecting piles of seeds, though the actual numbers of users affected are not known to me. The fact, that iotaseed.io is still online at the time of this writing might suggest that the site got compromised itself, and its not the folks behind the service who ran the attack.
Other places that are having discussions about the situation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2791245.0
https://steemit.com/iota/@madmac/iota-thousands-of-wallets-compromised-and-funds-stolen

Old forum post advertising the malicious website: https://forum.iota.org/t/iotaseed-io-now-also-for-generating-paper-wallets/3915
That post was made by username: norbert   https://forum.iota.org/u/norbert/summary
This may be the same person who deleted their account from Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Norbert-vd-Berg/log
and deleted their Reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/norbertvdberg/ 
and deleted github: https://github.com/norbertvdberg

btw- You can obtain a copy of the seed generation website from the internet archive here: https://web.archive.org/web/*/iotaseed.io Should be useful for any legal pursuits.
On that archive site at the bottom there are two donation addresses, one which is a bitcoin address. I'm not sure if they are this thieves addresses or the github author they are linking to. There may be more addresses that changed on different snapshots of the website in the archive or possibly other useful data.
The bitcoin and iota donation addresses that were listed on ioaseed.io on that last website snapshot on January 3 2018:
BITCOIN: 1BXaRLe4LMfYjH4vUSJxCy1eEBDxJqeHpc

IOTA: HCBLOBZQXDUWXKFJJXNKWQGSAFFNRY9NBBJGYAANWFIIJMGWZWUFVFIWYPIAFYVWBIEFBV9CQRDOOUU99LWEXAHWEW


Domain Name: IOTASEED.IO
Registry Domain ID: D503300000042872196-LRMS
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.namecheap.com
Registrar URL: www.namecheap.com
Updated Date: 2017-10-15T20:31:54Z
Creation Date: 2017-08-16T12:11:37Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2018-08-16T12:11:37Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: NameCheap, Inc
Registrar IANA ID: 1068
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.6613102107
Reseller:
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registrant Name: WhoisGuard Protected
Registrant Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
Name Server: DNS1.NAMECHEAPHOSTING.COM
Name Server: DNS2.NAMECHEAPHOSTING.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2018-01-20T23:12:39Z <<<


Let's help the exchanges to blacklist the thief's IOTA addresses which currently hold the stolen balances. I'll keep this list updated as more people post addresses:
(Thanks to Alexa, all addresses up to the bottom of page 12 have been included here. If someone can compile the addresses after that page, that list will be added here)

UPDATE (January 24) POSTED BY ALEXA:
Here's an update with new addresses from where you stopped at page 8 to the bottom of page 12.
I couldn't get to all of them, so someone else will have to take over from page 13, if they want more addresses on the list.
It would really be a lot easier it if people could stop posting empty addresses (as there's no use in getting those blacklisted) and instead track the transactions to the address that currently holds the balance. If that one is one the list already: don't post it again.

Listed as empty before, but has balance:
AVVTHJXO9BWDEGODGPQOWIQXCAIOZLGCIWNJVIDHWICRICIXQSJUBMZZGLREELE9U9KMMVPRBBHAKJIR9 133 Mi
OQRJJB9MJFOLGALRYNAUNZCRQOZGRQPHTRNGNWLPPNGETIU9JVQNRSOEICJOGLQVPLCMHEBZSHNI9UJQW 461.04 Mi
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
New with balance:
YLNHDBKQRQPHQZMF9ZOMZYQWQDYOFWXWJJENBLNJSRDPTIYMSZHMCYBKKQXEDW9APLMGHUEWRNUMS9OKD 900.02 Mi
KLG9ENXTJSGFXVGWDUIVIFI9FEOIYWHCLCRHHHUILGBQNEGTTBVBYCOPDZXGPAMQFNTGVYWAXXDKWORZ9 900.02 Mi
UZSDQHCJJQOMMCMGZIQLUYFBRTRSBTFNDVEDTIQDAH9RZFWPYTMDOYFJZPYXBKGYKNQQVJQGLLBNTLMQD 437.33 Mi
IJYISY9VXNKAKZJOPECRN9AXMXOYZMMEEDGJAQZZSPZIDDYOAHFXINNNUSWFXYS9UKWCQFJJOOSFZQQWX 875 Mi
HSGYF99IECBGVMOAKHOPVY9HCEWDNBXUTYZOJOTDRKMGAWM9GHWPVHDYNEIFXAP99JTKSBFBJEQLKRUSA 875 Mi
GEAREGFBVZHEQWWWCFZZYWXUJDFWWCQDNDFHSIZ9R9YKNIVHCEBREFKVHVE9MHZVFJC9QUPVARAYNFROA 449.27 Mi
NVPICEIEILQRJMOOHHVTBDLMSZTDIWYVYU9YGOGSAKLFTFCMJEMXBTFRFYWZQFXVKRVNGYOJASMDEQSKA 449.27 Mi
SQPZWLNF9DPKOIODYIHZW9SKWZWMUOHGVRKDKGVSUVOQNONNHGCGZCRBARGSPJZMJBB9NUPWBKIPSDOCC 132.75
SOY9WIIFUDBE9EITMOZZLXQYOUZRLKOMQZZOIURITCNHMTNYJLLUOCRRLBTXPTM9ZOLENVUEALJJXOOOX 132.75
XRJC9SBOVLCUUYLVJDGRRGKBPWIXEEMGOSLHNS9GBEDNGMQSEFYQEDDQIFOSKBAHCSPJTARDATVAFQUCY 2.6 Gi
UTPHDFSAOVPSZUVKIXWYMYTCKLJXZFEYKKQKLYBIMUOYNDOJFOHZEYFHZPDAYKJVFLURJHGWIUN9XSPVW 2.6 Gi
CRRAFWYRQ99SE9OYHZKIHKPDVGXKSSECOBZT9QRNLSSOAWULGPRXKHWHWGXJVUMGGXZQIXHTMEYKUN9PZ 23.23
ZLXHODYKFAWRGYGRYBBIMLNXLVYHRKPLTYQXYTWTHYYCTWJRGTZEWECPBINVRXCVXAKMDKLETZXLAFN9Y 2.48 Gi
ARFWJXIEMHZZBPDPNKCNZXOPEHFSICNDIXII9WAHW9KCEBRFPMZXNQ9RFASQGAUPDVKSYYJPGAZ9WABKA 199.5 Mi
ZLL9NIMGCWOFKXFWCXZMCASDIRNXHNJPXCXFKVHNWDFUYXUOXURGFOLQYCFZDCYSVDPSPHBJYNBOKIGAY 99.75 Mi
QAPBRALWDFFFZZBL9HTXVEEFATQUMZHPOXPSP9GTUZCPUL9NDDPHFNQXKTAXBLH9JPQVVPQGNPXICNWYD 99.75 Mi
TUQTHXOSHOQVTEIVEUHINYFDVPFQYRGKTDVADKY9IMIKYYTXJVJOPWUW9TIJULNCJZLZQWAFHCMWTVMW9 1.54 Gi
BZNVVFPPHIKTKLAMOCUAKTIOIGNEPZECDH9KSMPLKNIBIARGKVYPLQQEAGJTVDONNURMFFQYSBLUEBXWW 1.54 Gi
YONLPTJKJMONCXNNMTAQDUDTNCUBJPENQUKFADPMYNOFXWGUPUTEBXBVVDOGTEKSSSCZDWNYKGTPDMTSD 8.67 Gi
JQMGWWJYI9UNIRRTWGDIYCDNSPYPKFXHIYDXBOPXXGBHVXTBCUTXOM9ESNEOYIFGJYYXIGSSWGLYJYLSA 7.61 Gi
CE9XUYX9KSLEKFKKSMW9XRBMGLBJ9PRCMDGNV9GXZEKZQQEBJQEMXVCFTNOHZEZPSUZYUIDLTDNTDHIYA 162.12 Mi
9SKDUHUFCIRZSMJQKLAUC9AISRJWNCYMXTUSHBBZJKMTOBDN9GQIUGDX9SCDXGB9GNSAPTRMYLNHAKURX 162.12 Mi
UCMCYTMEKKUFQBKTFDHSVZWFGPAOXISIALVOZLUODQGQJOBHBPLACPR9NNJWQMSCBWHKEGUFOBJHETY9X 4.15 Gi
CTORMCUAAMTBPK9XPSQEHJPARDRA9XTPUWC9EEARSWMZNTYAWXGLEVXVKQDXKBHARUFZEKBGSVKFJYHMZ 2.75 Gi
KXUEFCAA9OLOPJXFBIN9YPFSDIWGCPPUQVJ9ACNADWUWSEYXWBDYQNHUYDHYJGZGFEPDNYGRHSD9UKFJD 11.4 Gi
OQRJJB9MJFOLGALRYNAUNZCRQOZGRQPHTRNGNWLPPNGETIU9JVQNRSOEICJOGLQVPLCMHEBZSHNI9UJQW 461.04 Mi
ZUPLQWPGXGTWEFAXGXPYGCUFDDTJQTYLRNWUDNGYAONXPHFRJFYLMGLSCFOQKOPOHPIFQZJGCFYDWPIBD 3.21 Gi
F9FPU9DMTZEIG9HQVYQHUWXULRUHFYFS9ZHIOFGKGCJJXLDLMYCLXUVXFNVCJQBNVLYVTHZNEXBBFGUQB 721.04 Mi
SWHLVQBTESLTGQIOSKMCEJMAOEEORWSQSNIHHENRAHKCBDBWRGTTUFFRHMJQVLTJTJOYWBSHJPYFBFZUY 721.04 Mi
DVNCCLRSERRMRVSQFCBKYAEFHKOZSUGTVXUMQKKLUPMSBZUEPCGTBQBTLWXHAMZALZONVJJXJSENJIBBX 308.34 Mi
IVIFATZRJUWBDLTYLQHCNMCEGFGBZN99SAAVRDUVYTAAPLYLEGZPBCFFVAJXOGSYILSIOXWIENCCTFTZY 308.34 Mi
BESICQSDBXQEBCIZMKOFWOUOC9IJJDUR9JC9LJJKPRHFRGUAVJTKYJSG9FFATVX9KUIYOQPBHDT9XIFOD 4.44 Gi
LCDZEY9MGCUCB9PEYTWMVMZSXQVFMUZCDQHWBRVZQKYXXQORANTYZYDCCEEOWJGGOQIEXLQGWLGMBHRYX 11.64 Gi
XZ9OMFCMAPTMAUHPBFFNKSCXBD9TOTTIAUJRBRUNSJVDVRBQROCFOMHISYFHXNCDXYNIXFIIUAMFIMAKY 12.01 Gi
LCSPIPXZLJVNT9XUOEHEMXJVOFXOETELXTCNABPPODQPMYYRSDNKUTF9SEL9QLPSIXO9QAVPWOGHEICSD 7.37 Gi
ARBDBWY9DGEWXCCFWSXISLVOIPGR9AMVAHSZRXTKMMCEOT9BJACSVEKAKP9QIBZBEFHBVL9BOPABWDCUZ 7.27 Gi
HGKLYH9VELSHTUV9TFUJLZ9OE9TDUELKPYUAE9IPILFBOKQR9NLRWPUBXPINZGCPUGWOHRZFFXGEPIHFY 4.04 Gi
NNYOMYMLRYNOVLJBPHIIIQDTQHFXIVMTOYPTCHFIYUGBSCCUWBZYZYDVNZQMUZLIRNGGQNYPCBZNAPDQB 1.54 Gi
BLPVFPHBWJOFBEXNOCOWWCCENBVNSVPMZEWKEBWNQJZKNM9JJPATDLOYUOVSJAGJOHKZMLCUMJKMOHWVX 268.11 Mi
J9SICTLXMNWXBT9BKLVPFCJVJKGQCHVAHIPX9URBFVDFE9LNZNWQVRCAKSTHKFUGUWDXUOW9KNRTQKINB 152.2 Mi
K9MWGM9QYZHEAAMPYINRAEKVMNCWEKLZQYWNRTHQJUHJIMZGZPILGOJJNMLSQUDFSTDXHKNXBNHUSKHUD 1.15 Gi
PQJYSELQJTEEYCXFOYCTWOMBC9HDZBJMVVHOGGYEAPCGSAOYEDEZHEYEPFDBYCDXJAZ9DNVIPHIJWTY99 4.6 Gi
9WWDWLGC9MVAAQKANMHQSXHRXAGCPHSMPRPEZP9EOVKUJLKYCHPPFSGRIPXKHVNEWBIFLPWUG9JRUIZSW 1 Gi
BXEEYUTTPFZBSUHEXDHGERFP9OFOIOKJGCCFFLOZJOG9NDDEFWBJUNWTVW9YXZNBRYRBEAALEXLYOPNQD 1 Gi
ESXIEZHHLEYZJLXBWRLYAJECSHBUMXGZMBINNAWNPLIFRIFGNDPHZKJOACZNEXRKQBKKHBMLDKLWWTQYD 58.5 Mi
HMJGVWELDDZDEGVSTOPZ9SUEFMZCYOBRRFIZDNERCELDDUFIDIAXTTWPGUFGQVDAWGJDGSKSJVPXQWUJB 249.23 Mi
CGYTGBKLOJUZWVDXCKKZKDMSDVTEYDFGEDTWTMPMFJBRQPCUQSIACCXBDFZMBELYKQFTWYLVOPSQSJSEX 127 i
MV9HMDKLIQDEYEZWTYZVOLDYI9LPOMHKTZOEKEUKTQONFO9NZZOJYPCIAZKOBZIPQFQUQXVQJCEPVEPKD 4.84 Gi
T9PILZIWPQJUIYLSAAXHIYJAFCAYNKBILPKGPSZBXJVIMEDAPJGOSAUBCFQ9GKQDGBFNCHGZMIFNSXPBA 2.5 Gi
ZGRJDIIZXIBDZYWAKHZDGFQKFAADXOTWEVNXTBTVR9COAPGGEFLFZJWMISDWDT9LILYYYLZSPILSBXSFD 2.5 Gi
KRDTGTERZCIXCCAE9ERSLFD9UWIYSKKXALVUTDVAOGZLNOOTKVHRWWTNRPFPTWSQMRCYR9HGMCSATQUPY 9.49 Gi
WDLLKDTZTOFGQRTBUSTZOSZQYSUEBFQGOVFLHTTRSTZTRXDTTKRVG9I9YUE9VTUIE9NRWGSLTHWIUTPRX 9.1 Gi
FKBGLDFVBCBTQIX9QXKMDSPKWXO9FNATQWZHGAFNMNJVSYRKM9QSSEQYSEYEXQHQFSGVOSJTFQGNAOPDC 520.98 Mi
SXUMDYWTFWCUYEEOQGUXUP9CQA9NGUZQDTJBJCOSOKYRRDIFMLPEIBBQD99EZCBVQHPHVJA9ACTVBXGOZ 78.2 Mi
FPIBCILPJFRZAQRTSKNOVONZIKPIQEHQQIGL9MKYEDFAJXXOWNMVACKQDSFLCREYP9EYJJKG9BYIRLAUW 12.07 Gi
QUYCDCGDQQJQBXBYIGDLQFQQEYSNU9EALXPFMTUU9BLFAHETMQMLLINDMHEAFSMXRR9VGEVWVNFEHAHJD 3.18 Gi
YWYYOXSTN99BUCQGXLITLSABX9QUCWSCTZEVCKSDJLTGLHZIHGPGLEVWUAQIZUUURHZFQBZJYBWDJABDC 18.62 Gi
SHQGRZTMSELZSUVHWWZQGSDVWXOAQ9YWYWEDQSMPNXMUTASFSZWJDKDZXNENJJHHUSHPKWBTBQJIJQNVD 419.01 Mi
RYSSOMRMNCG9KRAUEGPURNWHPHBPKKLG9OWZNWXGLBCIWNECLA9WYSKYXHBJKSPLHXDQ9NMVORDCA99DA 4.34 Gi
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now empty:
PZQRE9QMRPQZ9SMZRAEDGXFDQADBNMBUVHJPEOSECLKDCNETUYQMMBLLPPKCNBBWWLFXYKOUHEK9ZE9TDKXVQGMNTY
SGRLFSBORTTDTSNIQZIQPYGXRQSYVCPZWCH9ERPLRFHVMWRTIGNEIBWGUYRAGHHADSDNTMBOCE9RHNALCORRNDNOSD
XTWX9FDSWOCOJOKIJANSZUUBJLQVFXCSEMHTHHN9SBGEINJZRULXLGBFWRSBFKCNCCNZ9HAMY9CWYQLDBYISIJGYUY
KQAHUBAXMMFSPEDVMWNPULRNKQOVX9FEIYVXLLLHRPNGPWBQQECZXDL9CMVWTJOJGBXNQZKRYTBUILSHZLUGXUMTZZ
JQTKULYLUWAWOPIURRGVGOQAYVUHPSMAUGLIRQGUGUW9NZPCSREAKXUPCEYPIUHPVJEXACXJDYAEDJRVA
ILFHRYIJPWQ9HGCKRAOXEECZVKBPVKXDNTCKOOO9SITAGLZR9ASDTCMV9MEO9TGTRHONKEJIWEL9GAEAWFPWAJEOQW
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PZQRE9QMRPQZ9SMZRAEDGXFDQADBNMBUVHJPEOSECLKDCNETUYQMMBLLPPKCNBBWWLFXYKOUHEK9ZE9TDKXVQGMNTY
ESWVKJWXTGIWBOSEREELRFWCFKZDEIOXJGGQGBUOJUBAGVFGARFDFZRPPIYVSINMVMHURNXUBSYAXYV9Y
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MMAJPSFJCDFJIPFUYGYEPSLWUGQVP9SMTAGGQRWYZ9VHQPVZODAGYTMFKIPKPOLLYJONJROB9HP9HUBHDQNFXKJIL9
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ULXCGRVWGFNUFXSRJRGKVJJUXYBWNTIORQAMQJQGVMDQYVOOOC9FUVHHVJIPBQ9ZYKLEOK9WFM9KBMMPXCANVZMXHY


=============================
OLD BELOW
=============================
Addresses as of January 23:

1.77 Ti
J9JC9VSQCMAODPPDWOPPDTPBPUKSYTYGZKFWOKQABPK9OQJIIZYUKXNTKPHMOCXCY9ARMKP9JYXJBOWTXGXGRIBLTB
https://thetangle.org/address/J9JC9VSQCMAODPPDWOPPDTPBPUKSYTYGZKFWOKQABPK9OQJIIZYUKXNTKPHMOCXCY9ARMKP9JYXJBOWTX


804.79 Gi
OKVDOXIKGRGRJQZTPVPWXZGXFQXEAKEFD9PIVZCVSWFXWIPVAOGABBNMIAVR9AMIUPAMFPMVDJIOJWZLYWQKQHQFJW
https://thetangle.org/address/OKVDOXIKGRGRJQZTPVPWXZGXFQXEAKEFD9PIVZCVSWFXWIPVAOGABBNMIAVR9AMIUPAMFPMVDJIOJWZLY

520+ Gi
GOBXTNODUGURNEESTGFVMGFBVBFGIXJLYPOUWMXTBMECORN9IHHCLVWD9UM9WYKJMB9YOFMUHZ9SJASYXNWGUPOSDD
https://thetangle.org/address/GOBXTNODUGURNEESTGFVMGFBVBFGIXJLYPOUWMXTBMECORN9IHHCLVWD9UM9WYKJMB9YOFMUHZ9SJASYX

235.65 Gi
NTPYIPERTMLJLNJVBAK9DQQQCZGMPQJXUAZIDPNSMEPXZWKBTMRTGPEVEWHQICSTKJSTBWULZPJOXZNNBQKVQEYTYD
https://thetangle.org/address/NTPYIPERTMLJLNJVBAK9DQQQCZGMPQJXUAZIDPNSMEPXZWKBTMRTGPEVEWHQICSTKJSTBWULZPJOXZNNB

151.29 Gi
EFMEPAWSH9SOLQEMJHQBIXHCXVYKYGMUAMULAWMPZHHGPBMSLRXUSCOIZVXOZDXCRIAZJFNBNNMTXDPUWKSQDOXETB
https://thetangle.org/address/EFMEPAWSH9SOLQEMJHQBIXHCXVYKYGMUAMULAWMPZHHGPBMSLRXUSCOIZVXOZDXCRIAZJFNBNNMTXDPUW

1.11 Ti bundle:
TUAJSFJGPXKJRTXIGGVZZHWLLZCN9ZQMDDJNDZKVAZKWJZDVKDOGJDDCMEJSFHDETZYCFCXOGGHHYWDIZ

108 Gi bundle:
LQFIHCELYGCYAXFTWQGYPQK9SNUSN9F9ALPOBFJFUDCIW9HNHZVRDGKDUUAFJRRYUJZ9LTJKSNCFDPTLW

HURWQIBSAEVZSBCK9LSYCVR9ZGOCSHHQIENAZURGCVCKXEMYIGHTYQQDRHJNUNPEIKIDKQTABQNFOWUMADSCRBWLXW
https://thetangle.org/address/HURWQIBSAEVZSBCK9LSYCVR9ZGOCSHHQIENAZURGCVCKXEMYIGHTYQQDRHJNUNPEIKIDKQTABQNFOWUMA

9NVYWFBV9HGFQWCNROMZIAOPGIHRUVPAURUKUGPWGBN9TQJFYJZJWBRHBG9YXTNTAESKHZFNOQAFIYRSXOSKWAIDRW
https://thetangle.org/address/9NVYWFBV9HGFQWCNROMZIAOPGIHRUVPAURUKUGPWGBN9TQJFYJZJWBRHBG9YXTNTAESKHZFNOQAFIYRSX

GAHJVAHMGEGOES9XECPGBUCYHETYGCPZX9EIHERQGXIHTFFWHY9FMUZCEGBZOBQRNJUEJOLKRPAZENDBDVKRXUUFRD
https://thetangle.org/address/GAHJVAHMGEGOES9XECPGBUCYHETYGCPZX9EIHERQGXIHTFFWHY9FMUZCEGBZOBQRNJUEJOLKRPAZENDBD 

(Thanks to Alexa, all addresses up to the bottom of page 12 have been included here. If someone can compile the addresses after that page, that list will be added here)

4.24 Gi
MYFQ9GTCQFLFAQEOXEVYNJSHYFQHGKE9HGWMZVR99BUZJWHYALUYMWYJEBTWGF99RCYZCBUVYMSCJEYWWWWZXYCHEB
1.8 Gi
RGAWHCLYZFLPHTALTVQAJDYPULAGVCNKNTJY9DQTSVHNYEHNGJLTLBNOWASQRYEGYOLWFBZSLGGVPWFBBRIOJKCNW9
99.5 Mi
HYIYQMPOZSQT9WBGANFMCAQUEMBA9VOYLLG9HXZIHBDRJRFWANEFWULW9PKHMONLUCMWYTLRQARZMKQZDPCADNUVKC
15.09 Gi
XGRAUZWMXEUEOACWQJVJYEDOWNBMHZPTFUTLHJAOTSOWGHIHIRYKPJZCNALHZUZQSEYUJXQHKXLIADCLDQEGCXEHPW
7.15 Gi
9C9OXMNORPVLFDXIMFENPFMKIBQLGWTNTBHQWEFQUIJNCERVGNHVPAVLQEHWPKZVSXQEUDDJQYGKCUVGCJRTRXPIKD
18.59 Gi
TMGWYV9F9YGQZ9LZARTUHQGIGCAHWCXYMAGZOXNGMZJBIMVOTIFWTVOZEKKWAOLPJCHGBJBPGGAYNBNKCCYSHIHB9W
2.08 Gi
WVGPQSORGGDIEWORFYSTKHYGRKULRHFPEUPLTFGMMKYJJEWDESTGGBWSVPEMSYYYC9CWAMHFCHPVUAZIAHWJEKJCAW
4.27 Gi
LGGPTEXWGNXQYVELGFKNLCOEPYMUCVVARGIHAYUSFYHAHUPOEF9LLMV9KZLP9HDJXBKVDSCNPVZLPNJRZCOQZOEGXZ
5.359 Gi
JLGAOWMARSEHRGJFMLUXC9A9HATYLHMOAVOALKKYXANRYPKTWKGCDMHWYBRP9VLSNISWGLPZFMBIITUSWIUMSLJXPX
1.75 Gi
VJNG9HNAHGHCPCN9WXLUWXJD9LDNCRRHCOVFMDPJZPIE9OFVNXSRTIIBGCTYSGDHW9OLRIVRLRVIZDFWWAKDYCGXFD
26.31 Gi
QZZGNNFWYVVHLFLLSDDDBOLVUDDXRXLAMJDDUQWAQKRAPO9UCBRYZJXOMNABQYOOCKRZZVXUJKNHARYJYKIHTNQIJA
15.09 Gi
XGRAUZWMXEUEOACWQJVJYEDOWNBMHZPTFUTLHJAOTSOWGHIHIRYKPJZCNALHZUZQSEYUJXQHKXLIADCLDQEGCXEHPW
3.26
JAZDUF9HBORDBRWOTDPZVNJYHFIEANLXAIAZOJTVYCQWNZVHYBOAOPDORXEX9ZGIPNXIYHLTG9KXZLTUWJYPNGITFY
898.55 Mi
FBIZCBGVVMDLPVTXBKYPKYJZHYR99NNODBCQPJBNASLGDZXQFEDUSFGKBOZUISEAKQOCDPPBHZBZ9XAMBZVBMOOXTD
1.1 Gi
ZXUZETEZASYCNGMWOQBU99GKYVFVRIXKRVNGWE9KQMYXOHCH9IMLCBCTVZCBJMZT99Z9VQQXFQLJC9MWDETIX9SPRC
HUIHRYVVDPDAWMCBYUJXMSPYHPP9Z9ICFPKZOJYZRCWAPSAHSKCDQSIEKQEJYLTM9NIRONYFSPNVNQV9DTNLVYAWCZ
25 Mi
UUVTFPXPPGSULRHWFIHQFEVVRXMBPSFUEBHFPQPIFYUVAGANVDSTBGHUFEZ9QB9DQYJPMSYITZCYFBWYBBN9LNLWBC
VT9GRFJQRCZONDDFQPFJCKKAXW9XNLLCJVWRBMEGSYULKYRFGHUBZGYDPYHCLSAQONLPYDI9WYV9PVQI9MEZI9AUR9
2.76 Gi
IICPKFSGDXTBBGETTCIVDOOZQDVRDKYUTBEAIZBFLWKXZGIPHGMNXC9HKXU9EONFSVPMILYPVJFYHBUCWXG9UQUHUX
265.5 Mi
PTTZVFSMATHGRUAGGVUPHGZS9SUSKQCHISMCZCTKRHMOBOEV9JMYGHSYBPFAUGNWTIVPZH9MBQFNSCRZWAVGJEGCJD
5.2 Gi
V9XIXKTCMBNLAXE9AWCIZLWVUXECKEHAJFTFMPLCMBGCCCHFXRBSNHPLXOEEFEKKISKJHGSMHEAN9VJ9YVGNYIZPXX
2.14 Gi
LFIMYHCWXWVKDMIGKJBLJGEZUOUPESJLSJUNGUKTX99ZOFWBWBUCOQJSERJEGNDSQTLIWYVSWBOQKKDXD9LIEEALIA
1.72 Gi
QYWCHKZJU9SHPPEIDZVCXTGHIPP9LBIYRYJIQVVKLPXRUKJKPCLUZQUBAEXFSJRFDVSYV9FV9NOHWZG99NLUFJVKJZ
3.56 Gi
AJEROXILLAOYFWBRUAAWIW9G9OFZVPVCGVKHWLTNNXI9YJCSQVQVDYIKQDJIA9MVOCFDQYPQMNQSQKCFANAL9HRUMC
6.22 Gi
RCMBGJZDXKERJWLYEUEZYPYZQSS9OWESYVMFZTZRRHEFPGLRPDQLS9HQGJKTIEKVTVPFAQTYOOVFLMXR9RXRECDQKB
1.47 Gi
OIWECXNOHDHFTSPRXWHFCDPVTCYHJEMDANKUGHIJNFMERUDASQ9QZLRB9WONTCRRR9X9ZOCJVDXMXFNYCAUODTNJDA
8.87 Gi
PXTBVOQHXYBAJFLE9FPNMUEWZPMRBZQXWLCY9VYURXXCWPGPVEYAXTWCIBVOPAXVKYOCYIMKKRPCUEFJ9ALSLHFV9X
6.22 Gi
RCMBGJZDXKERJWLYEUEZYPYZQSS9OWESYVMFZTZRRHEFPGLRPDQLS9HQGJKTIEKVTVPFAQTYOOVFLMXR9RXRECDQKB
19.19 Gi
ALYRLA9RPAAAEHLFOPSOQMHFHMW9UNIOSNZXSXHLY9VGDGUVCBFCQEZQNBIFPVPQPKCBOFBVUZBZUZKEDXW9DXYEAZ
2.08 Gi
WVGPQSORGGDIEWORFYSTKHYGRKULRHFPEUPLTFGMMKYJJEWDESTGGBWSVPEMSYYYC9CWAMHFCHPVUAZIAHWJEKJCAW
9.43 Gi
LBHUVFYUJWXOYQEGLYAQPJYLNJAFKYINHBACITQVTNTAYHFLEQTBDWUDHSCLVPO9LARHBPN9FFNKHQPXWOBXEFVRRA
3.02 Gi
YUHHXDDIMNDLKDPSTBDYTKNY9PCBVCMSXECYVJTFIMMXEKVTWACDIWGZEOMN9CHDPMCD9AOXZOYAPFRCXGVJAAAAUB
1.88 Gi
SYLBJLPCHQMJPWCNUGRR9PQPJLFSKPTKFXLAF9DCKTJVQPLKEZAXGGLE9VXZWOLSYCCQUPUOCKRHIOKGDK99PTPV9Y
1.75 Gi
ZAYXJCLJVYYGFICBWTKMYCWHGVBLKNEMHOWGOVGXRIWGT9HKYZHWWPPDAKJJFQYPLLSDAZTOAYGEZG9HDQBTMAJSUY

(Thanks to Alexa, all addresses up to the bottom of page 12 have been included here. If someone can compile the addresses after that page, that list will be added here)

Now empty
OEELSJPRYTWBKCAUPUSUDPUDCVBSRWFLIQQERDAEBUWKMFJLVHUNAWABRFHCWRIJBKYFQ9FNGGRVEUSUXAJXVSRLZW
KNHKJLETGSDLJSFFDSAAEGTEIHHLMWOGXVEDEPUPXTYMVHEVWLEBAABTNMFBEM9MDPONNJGY9WQCBFVNWFIRVDHRTW
BUEMMMQAGPKCCBSVFYVKOYGCBYHXLDAYTYOFRYYYJSBFVVWHEGPACPTVFOEFXVIDEEWGYZRWXXHHURYEBQPTUEM9OD
KGBJEUNTGKSUTV9QCRDYQTQFGNLKQXVFLJQUERTAPIGKYFVDXQRUHANJNMXLAQQAIMIGVTHKEKQNNN9EXDAVCZFBF9
SWBPUHLCUQYVWPRHMFMCPRYWUBCGK9OO9GPKB9BLQABGSZGKKUDEUJIIJLPQWSSJXGHJYHUHIBZLXROOYJKMKLSOZX
UBLQW9YPXHZ9ZOURWYWKSYFQEWFRYFIBJYXQQAYHOSQYGSLLRUNPNPPKIIAEET9WKF9RNTUIUFJVVV9YDLHKIRICLZ
HNECRND9HUSYPLIWULZKYQWLGZFMOVPTTWTNBOWAXFVXZW9HFPOYWIYIXFRZKDVATZJGJFDOECFSXSVVZZUPDHOPXA
FBA9KYTDEFIERJSYKSIMCBCZM9UKBCL9QKDTAPUHHVVAWMOGTDGNDRHIBDWTRGOWDOJDKYJFJCIPJNJH9SUOIKFBRA
RSWLBA9LDJH9FWFPTBRHDBAQAAH9DDWCVF9CVJIWNBYXMRYQPXZ9TIZOUEHLKRBJEYDAWSHMYBHL9AQZANBDKEQMOX
MKPMJQSEURTQMCFXBEIXAUXZRHYQCWTVOTROAUAZWPNZYJRSXGZHMHZIWWAEVHJVGV9TWLCOZUXBMETKXODAAODZVD
NPZKLK9UWWHXIYWFSSGZQKITTVST9EU9JRLZWRUFUOLGGELCFPN9BHKRVDIIQEYWGHMHCAVSRXQGHGOZZOFTHKLKEX
AVVTHJXO9BWDEGODGPQOWIQXCAIOZLGCIWNJVIDHWICRICIXQSJUBMZZGLREELE9U9KMMVPRBBHAKJIR9QQICHZCPX
ECEWVRSHLKRNZCROHBDUWPUKYJMIBTJBKWNYMIHHWFUHDLDCV9HNM9XOSUEBFDNDFQSC9TIOQCQKTJPFCTLLAPFSPD
ZPXFSDGOOWBWCNKAONOUZEEEZFPKCPMZZOZWWJLPHQKGRLBOAG9KMJLKXILSGTWZ9CNPMGWHTIDTFYQXYXOOVQFSOA

EIFSFHQYZEVKOJZOHFZHWKE9EXMREBVVPWMCKYMLPTQLGPO9AEKSACRO9AJTBXCUYTIVZOQATXLNDGBDBATGUTZRLB
JJW9VRRCSOCHQWPWDYHMHUXZCZQQQEPZCFOWJCHQAFGSMGVSMWLSCAKZTGSNUIAWBEGGMZXFWDFHBLIAWTHLHPDGGA
AZWBUGCURMQKZJYGZITN9QKKIGWHJA9GPVTYJC9CDUNWOCVJSOCSBILB9EAGUGXFCLOZKUSUJSVWHUZTWNJYGCOLKB
ERYQTLNVFFOGEHMALQJMRFISFUUIJPYIWKWFY9EQCUOAUZSGZP9THDRHFLCNFBEUITGLDQICHBVHELZXXETLKQSNBB
GWB9FZUHPEPCRAMZJUTGPKRA9IRNIBPMYGFDEYEGXZGI9FZRDOQKZODXPRGEEKYZWYYWRBTHZUNLOIIR9RXDYBZGNW
UCWBAYEGH9FBAQKKBVXKNGYSEFUBRGHKUNRWRSWT9AGMKVSBJKONZRTDQKPBIGEMCXVAZ9QBU9VEKUAPXKTYQHYOCC
GWB9FZUHPEPCRAMZJUTGPKRA9IRNIBPMYGFDEYEGXZGI9FZRDOQKZODXPRGEEKYZWYYWRBTHZUNLOIIR9RXDYBZGNW
EETIM9SRXXKPOV9NZEOFSBTILTSVIZPLBILGHGJAVLIPLCORBYFFBVLXVIJFDV9ODLRWVSFBSKWJSIBCALHXKJFYVB
KHGEDPRIPVPZC9WCCATFXGAALCHSPHCRXIAGXDTYAVREUYGCR9SCKFZXP9SVCWNNSTTVRYCVQAQRJCWJWSPCZLLUNB
KHGEDPRIPVPZC9WCCATFXGAALCHSPHCRXIAGXDTYAVREUYGCR9SCKFZXP9SVCWNNSTTVRYCVQAQRJCWJWSPCZLLUNB
ZSDGSDXOIICJNTGLMFUIQLIBEEGVBOGMA9DNLQDTA9RGJHFPDAPADGUPUDL9VHFVACUWUGEVTCKPVUPI9SFWNFHXCW
ECEWVRSHLKRNZCROHBDUWPUKYJMIBTJBKWNYMIHHWFUHDLDCV9HNM9XOSUEBFDNDFQSC9TIOQCQKTJPFCTLLAPFSPD
YXRCTAVQTU9OSQBI9NYARSLBMATKROHJHCRX9IIPTMXXGFLDCOR9PIWDPCGTAGXZBYUPXUXRWZIK9GEBWIUHATXWMZ
BUEMMMQAGPKCCBSVFYVKOYGCBYHXLDAYTYOFRYYYJSBFVVWHEGPACPTVFOEFXVIDEEWGYZRWXXHHURYEBQPTUEM9OD

ARRHJ9V9ISMVZMTXCOBRKUEJZEIVRIZ9CWAR9TVROC9HRGLIQXWGEFSHDPTTPHGNDDPUATNIEAYLTSQACPHJFBHQTC
9OEXHTYHPEVBDTPBUZILWEUPIXIUIXKQRYNECJKBJFLAIDRWZNVQRBICQTVTVROUDEQQFQOVQMSUZUIPXUC9NMT9PW
E9MKOUWCYBWADYXGXDCGSGXRMWQIFVFBAWEZYJGEZOWSMUVAYCRD9ABDNJNYLASFAJKM9TIJFZAYLNQO9MRYCQ9KAD
AMIJVUGZDWDHKQRTIODEOGIRWOVWRXYVOQFK9TLETOMUQZVPQZKLEPHMRNKRBNHAMDUOUIURXPGLEJOIBNGPOMWYJX
BJFVIGKFWNJWSWSNZERCXAOGWDAKZGHLSATKVCMKPOO9ZOPQKRASJDBTNZEZGTWHLBFNPAWMKUD9CKTZ9ANXNISMRC
JMFSOIUAZHLQXSFNEQGDHRSSNTTHOXFRCUWU9ZNMUHCFGDLZQSGNEXGWNKXQKUCCOIIOHR9WJXDRBFSCCO9RMGJCUD
ZTSEF9HERSDQJIKGUL9HKRHJJTTAUBRGUZF9MCRJWAKAVPPQODSKXYUHUYYX9R9QEHPAOLIYCNTWONCIBIZKBJTBM9
OQRJJB9MJFOLGALRYNAUNZCRQOZGRQPHTRNGNWLPPNGETIU9JVQNRSOEICJOGLQVPLCMHEBZSHNI9UJQWQXVFENLBB
LDTTG9WKOACCGCPFZRPYAOYTRBVVOKC9QUKK9PVHCPKLQOVPSTJJZ9CPKETNCXDANPMQQPIKQTDJTDJY9VFCNZRVAB
ZRSUEFIEJJVMLGTLHWQ9JNXDIAGSESRMBJWWUD9UHBUOUI9BWDNTOZYUTYQHIWFNXXNUGEWWMCOFHRPKDAREL9RXAD
AEYTTPPXPKVREJ9LGR9NU9KXCOFYDTJKWMNIWJTJBSRFFKDDSELFRAYKDHJIPWHUUYHWSQAEDUAJAQPTDZNARLX9TB

=============================
Please post the address to which your stolen balance was sent.
We can contact the exchanges and attempt to have these addresses blacklisted before the thief is able to move from IOTA into another currency. Time is of the essence.
(Thanks to Alexa, all addresses up to the bottom of page 12 have been included here. If someone can compile the addresses after that page, that list will be added here)


Also, let's try to look into the details of this situation as much as possible. If you decide to take legal action, please also post with advice for others who are considering doing the same. Let's all help each other out. The thief will get away with this if nobody decides to take action.

Edited Last Year by Winston
Lazyrudi
L
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no, it's not your fault. IOTA encouraged us to use their seed-generator placed in their own wallet generator system. It is IOTA duty to make it safe for the user.

By the way were is "Winston"?
What is IOTA doing right now??

mohammadalietebari
m
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mohammadalietebari - 21 Jan 2018
my iotas is gone
unfortunately transaction is confirmed
please help me

here is the hash

SMAQHHFMHGMGBEKREFKRCTXRYCTYMGTSWMKCYHD9VDBQKYTYSZUP9KULHDWPMNSNLIQMDSAGVCYSA9999



and i think this is the destination address:

EIFSFHQYZEVKOJZOHFZHWKE9EXMREBVVPWMCKYMLPTQLGPO9AEKSACRO9AJTBXCUYTIVZOQATXLNDGBDB

@Winston please update your post with my replay
ezeee
e
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Thats a shame! IOTA-people told me on their site to use an online-seed-generator, so i did and lost 56.7 gIOTA on january 19., and now they don't care, don't respond and seem to do nothing to us, who invested money and faith in this great idea. Is there nobody with relationships or contacts to the makers? Is there no sign from IOTA, that they are planing to do anything? I'm from germany and already wrote to Dominik Schiener on facebook, no response till now. Can we make it a reddit-thread they can't ignore?
GregPol
G
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We must write not only here. We also write on fecebook, twitter other portals. Not all victims here reach. Can you also set up a group of victims on facebook?
MMkrypto
M
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stesy - 23 Jan 2018
MMkrypto - 23 Jan 2018
Winston - 23 Jan 2018
@BIGLEE68

"WHY IS EVERYBODY SO CALM ABOUT THIS , I WANT THERE BLOOD !"
Everyone here is super upset. We started this thread so that we can all gather details about the situation and help each other through the legal process of recovering the stolen funds. Many other people in this thread have offered to team up and figure out what needs to be done next. Nobody else is going to fix this for us, so jump in and do something. Nothing will come from being aimlessly furious.

Winston - 23 Jan 2018
@BIGLEE68

"WHY IS EVERYBODY SO CALM ABOUT THIS , I WANT THERE BLOOD !"
Everyone here is super upset. We started this thread so that we can all gather details about the situation and help each other through the legal process of recovering the stolen funds. Many other people in this thread have offered to team up and figure out what needs to be done next. Nobody else is going to fix this for us, so jump in and do something. Nothing will come from being aimlessly furious.

Is there at least any attempt from the IOTA foundation to help find out the hacker? Putting some fund for an investigation such as to namecheap.com?
Also, there seems signs that IOTAs are moving around one wallet to another in the tangle, one of the post here, why IOTA teach is quiet? Isnt it legally a customer service violation?  

they all point the fact this happened due to bad seed !!! for what is my concern could be anything  , bug inside job whatever , seems like is impossible have some reply   from dev or IOTA foundation lack of information is definitely not good sign , I been to discord  and to be honest is impossible even wonder IOTA foudation has his responsibility  they immediately start to offend tell we are fudding people .
The point is I follow what IOTA Foundation on Official channel advice to do , I been to the website and follow the guide they provided , instead to blame us they should have had Official Website where generate proper seed nsteat to point us to 3th part website
so my question on twitter is  " Snapshot will occur in week what will happen to all those hack accounts?? 0 balance will be deleted right ?"#iota #blockchain #volkswagen #iotastolen

One thing in my mind is, IOTA foundation blames users for using online download seeds. But intetestingly, the site might have been known to IOTA because the guy Aran who was in the picture on iotaseed.io was involve with IOTA team, meaning his activity was known to IOTA, meaning iotaseed.io was known.
Next, most of wallet hacking took place in 1/19 related to part of hash ....99999, which I guest it could have happened in the IOTA system activity itself possibly.
So now the Iost IOTAs are still moving around in the tangle, but IOTA foundation disregard their role to support this community suffering with loss.
I sent an email to the UNiversity deputy provost in Tamali . Aran (who is actually computer science phd candidate) is actually in the picture with Norbert (iotaseed main character) on the iotaseed.io.please go back to the first page 1, check Winston's post, information about hacker. click some links in the upper section, you will see the name Aran. I found his facebook page here is the link; https://www.facebook.com/aran.cauchi
you can see the same picture on the iotaseed,io here on his facebook account.

MisterBrot
M
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Nathalia - 23 Jan 2018
OpenMedia - 23 Jan 2018
There was still no statement at all from "IOTAFoundation" about their design flaws, at least I haven't seen any. Probably they have advise from a lawyer, but not anything for their users

Why would they ? Because you used an online seed generator ? You guys are delusional.
1) IOTA is at an early stage of development, you don't like their wallet ? Don't use it.
2) Even better, you don't know anything about the tech you want to invest in? Then don't invest in.
3) The network is decentralized, meaning that no one owns it. No one can save your IOTAs. Not even the Foundation.
4) Don't use any online seed generator
5) Don't use any online seed generator, EVER


You're wrong. In almost every aspect.

1) It is recommended to use their wallet due to "safety aspects". Their wallet is shit, everybody agrees, but you want to feel safe.
2) That's nonsense. You can know about the tech, what it wants to achieve etc without knowing the exact details. I'm pretty certain not every Microsoft investor knows the source code of Windows.
3) Wrong. It is supposed to be decentralized, but still isn't really. In the past I think they've already took the network down to reverse some transactions. I've been reading something like that not long ago, must investigate.
4) Thanks for the info! Should have been on the official IOTA website frontpage!
5) Thanks for the info! Is still not on the official IOTA website frontpage
bakeddcookies
b
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IotaSeed.io now also for generating paper wallets!
General
Aug 2017
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norbertAug '17
You can now generate paper wallets with the IotaSeed.io seed generator!

All generated seeds are secure and based on mouse entropy! Mnemonic words are provided as well.

https://iotaseed.io/358

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Aug '17
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Aug '17
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arancauchiAug '171
First of all, congrats on getting into developing apps for IOTA!
I do have several reservations about this seed generator.

Firstly, there is no offline copy of this website available as a standalone.
Secondly, you are using way too much javascript, so that code validation is harder to follow, and your reliance on third party libraries is not immediately clear.
Thirdly, there is currently no approved way of converting mnemonic seeds to and from regular seeds. I highly recommend waiting until the Foundation endorses a mechanism for this conversion and a standard before anyone relies upon a third party solution.
Finally, whilst this is your own solution, you are using code from my paper wallet generator project here: https://github.com/arancauchi/IOTA-Paper-Wallet211. I offer my code as open source and for reuse, but I do ask for attribution to my codebase, at least in the readme of your project. This is open source etiquette.
All things considered, seed generators are still not considered safe if they come from a third party source, and not considered best practice. I would caution people against using this tool at this time.

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norbertAug '17
Thanks for the review, and for these tips.

Apologies. The readme has now been updated to reflect all the sources, including the snippet of your code I used for generating the wallet. Didn't find the time for it before (you know... postponing documenting things).

I have also added a note about offline usage. Which does work out of the box, both through save page, and through checking out the code from the git repository.

You can see the readme here: https://github.com/norbertvdberg/iotaseed/blob/master/README.md104

As for mnemonic words. If the user saves the page and his mnemonic seed, there is no reason not to use them while there is no official way. That is how tech progresses. Also the paper wallet for long term storage that was added, lists the private key as well, so does not require them.
Of course it is everyone's own decision, but I would say https://iotaseed.io108 with it's mouse based entropy is a lot safer than most other solutions based on system entropy. I built it for my own use, and whether others wish to use it is up to them.
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IMPORTANT:

Iota is planning to make a "snapshot" on January 28th. What is this snapshot?
"The snapshot compacts the Tangle by removing parts of its history, except addresses with value."

This is highly alarming! All hacked accounts would be deleted, because there is no value in them left. Accounts of the hacker, that have been used by him, but don't hold any more Iota at this date (because they have been forwarded to another address) would be deleted, too!
This must be stopped.
These accounts are all pieces of evidence in a criminal case. We must forbid the Iota Foundation to delete them. Perhaps people here from Germany who already talked to a lawyer could ask their lawyer what to do. "Einstweilige Verfügung" perhaps? We must act very quickly, because on January 28th it's too late and a lot of evidence will be deleted forever. Lazyrudi, I'm gonna write you an email.

If a "Einstweilige Verfügung" is possible to stop the snapshot, this would also put more pressure on the IOTA Foundation to stop being silent about this crime. If they have to stop the snapshot they must explain the public (and their investors) why they had to do so. I'm sure there are a lot of people who still don't know about the robbery.

Edited Last Year by MisterBrot
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Another thing, I've done my research:
IT IS TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE TO GET THE TRANSACTIONS BACK FROM THE THIEF!

Proof: they've done something similar before.

It's written down here in the "Official IOTA Foundation Response to the Digital Currency Initiative at the MIT Media Lab?—?Part 3 / 4"
https://blog.iota.org/official-iota-foundation-response-to-the-digital-currency-initiative-at-the-mit-media-lab-part-3-6433b55c7d57


The...shut down actually took place in October and was related to an attack on the network which would have resulted in the loss of user funds due to continuous key reuse. At the time of the attack, the IOTA Foundation, in conjunction with the full node operators, swiftly responded by suspending operations. Once the issue was identified and resolved, a snapshot was taken to protect vulnerable addresses, the network full node operators came to a consensus on this snapshot, the Coordinator was turned back on and the network resumed normal operations. IOTA node operators, understanding the importance of the Coordinator’s role in securing the network while it is still young, voluntarily suspended operations during this time...

In addition to the many technical guides for using the GUI Wallet (referenced above) and an active community support group with people offering round-the-clock technical advice, the GUI Wallet itself has numerous built-in safety features such as address reuse warnings and address tracking features. Despite all of these precautions, many users were still making the mistake of signing transactions multiple times with the same private key, thereby exposing the key to a brute-force attack. As a result, these addresses became vulnerable to attack and sadly, some users indeed fell victim to hackers.

In September of this year, a significant and growing number of potentially vulnerable addresses were noted, and the IOTA team decided to take action to protect the affected addresses. This decision was not taken lightly, but rather after careful consideration of the situation at hand:

On the one hand, it was only a matter of time before users’ addresses would be hacked and their funds would also be stolen through brute-force attacks...
On the other hand, freezing user funds, even if only to protect them, violates many of the core principles of the DLT community which we also hold dear.
In the end, with the community’s best interests in mind, we decided to take drastic and protective measures to prevent further theft from IOTA token holders. Importantly, these protective measures were only possible with the direct and active support of the IOTA community.

The vast majority of IOTA node operators have a good working relationship with the IOTA Foundation and the community. They respect the Foundation leadership, and they understand the purpose of both the Coordinator, which currently secures the network against attacks in its infancy, and the regularly scheduled snapshots and software updates. Ultimately, in order to implement the preventative measures mentioned above, a special snapshot was scheduled wherein all funds vulnerable to theft were tagged with a key reuse marker. The community was then asked to independently verify this key reuse designation, and once it was verified by the community, the subsequent snapshot moved all the vulnerable balances into a new address controlled by the IOTA Foundation. The IOTA Foundation would keep the funds safe, and the owners would have the ability to reclaim them at a later date once a reclaim process was implemented (to prove ownership and handle it in an organized and efficient manner). 

This movement of funds was only possible with the full cooperation of the community and the IOTA node operators, and would not be possible for the IOTA Foundation to do unilaterally. 

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What I really think is very embarrasing for the Iota Foundation team and will lose them a lot of trust:

Back in October they've decided to PRECAUTIOUSLY move funds that still were in the accounts of their rightful owners to an account belonging to the Iota Foundation. They even did a complete network shutdown! Only because they feared a robbery of those accounts COULD TAKE PLACE and they felt like they had to protect their users.

However, this time, there actually was a robbery taking place!
Dominik Schiener (Co-founder) knew about those ongoing thefts at the latest on January 19th in the afternoon. We know about that fact, because on January 19th an announcement of Dominik Schiener was published in a IOTA Discord channel:

https://ibb.co/noNLYb

I still don't know the original origin of that announcement, but it's probably also message in a Discord channel.

So he was fully aware what was going on, but still there was NO announcement on Twitter or other social channels at that moment to warn people, as far as I've researched!  No warning at all except to a small amount of people in a Discord channel! 
The theft kept going on until at least January 20th - a lot of funds have been stolen AFTER Dominik Schiener was aware of the situation! The IOTA Foundation this time did absolutely NOTHING to stop it - compare this to their actions in October, when no theft was actually taking place!

What should have been done (in my opinion):
1) As soon as the IOTA Foundation was aware of MULTIPLE thefts (January 19th afternoon), they should have immediately tried to warn all of their users. Twitter, Facebook, every social media channel. Reporting it to big news sites, so they can make an article and warn users that don't are involved in social media.
2) Shut down the network like they did in October to prevent further thefts!
3) Cancelling all pending transactions in the network (if possible)
4) Telling all their users that if they feel they could be in danger they should immediately move their funds to a new seed as soon as the network would be up again

Instead they chose to do NOTHING. While fully knowing what was going on.
Edited Last Year by MisterBrot
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Hello all, 
I too had all my funds stolen on Jan 19th.

499.4 Mi confirmed sent to: ITIKFZCWTDENBB9MBQUPJNOWGJFZTW9BVSBAFHDHPWTIETJQUNOHGUDWEBVJIRELONCM9SPPBEHAZECGALIJWQJWKD
Hash: VFZRJHETQHXSECQSEUZGLIDVI9BQNAGAJOHVFBYFCQQJJXCPEVKBLFMZKGS99QWKLFVX9YTMIJDHA9999

I know not much can be done but any help would be much appreciated.
Edited Last Year by Rowbo
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My stolen IOTAs: 68.000000001 Gi 
are here:
ILEORCIFKQTNMHLKMZRVHZQOAOJKIAMORAFDSFBYBLGGVHEVFANBZKTSDSAINDPKPLTOKMPNQF9CZSXWWDF9YQZTTY
https://iotasear.ch/address/ILEORCIFKQTNMHLKMZRVHZQOAOJKIAMORAFDSFBYBLGGVHEVFANBZKTSDSAINDPKPLTOKMPNQF9CZSXWWDF9YQZTTY
Sad
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What people still fail to understand, this is a complete flaw in design of the IOTA client. They use the private key, which they call seed, to login to it.

Not only is this seed not securely created, it is also not authorized.

There are 3 major pillars in information security, I wrote that already:

1) authentication, this is the seed/private key
2) accounting, that is the balance and history
3) authorization, that would at least be a password, or PIN, or Google authenticator. Anything. They completely ignored this.

It's basically the same as if you buy a car without brakes, you obviously will crash it, and the manufacturer tells you it was your own fault as you did not check it before,


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Hello lambtho,

since you're a very active member in the IOTA community, perhaps you can answer these questions. Yesterday, somebody calling himself "FibbonaccisRabbit" was here to defend IOTA and blaming the users solely like you are now and promised to come back to answer these questions, but never did unfortunately.

Since you seem to have a much better understanding of the technology than most of us, maybe you can help us in answering some questions:
1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?
2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
3) If the snapshot on January 28th takes place: what happens to all accounts that have no value in them left?
3a) hacked accounts
3b) Hacker accounts, that have no funds left, because they have been forwarded
4) Is it possible to restore the history of these accounts COMPLETELY?
5) Will it have to be done manually? If so, what has do be done by us? And what happens to the accounts of the thief, who probably won't manually restore his used ones without any Iotas left on them? (Why should he?)
6) Will PENDING TRANSACTIONS be restorable after the snapshot? Pending transactions are another important proof in this criminal case. I've got like 30-40 pending transactions initiated by the thief in my wallet. I've got a pending transaction of MYSELF back from December in my wallet, that proves, that I've tried to move part of my funds to another seed of mine that wasn't generated by an online seed generator. That transaction is still pending, never came through and I am very pissed about it, because those funds I've tried to move are stolen, too!
And there are people who were able to stop the robbery of their accounts bei double spending (they were able to send their IOTAs to a different seed, before the pending transactions of the thief were confirmed). They have those pending transactions of the thief in their wallet and those addresses of the thief are pieces of evidence in this criminal case.

Thank you very much for your contribution!

Furthermore, there are some things that need to be clarified.

lambtho: "So, even though they are not responsible for what happened, the sympathies and do their best to gather intel about the scammer."
What are they doing right now? Nobody ever came here and contacted the victims. Nobody ever tried to tell us, what exactly they're trying to do. I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?

lambtho: "They hate the people that are only pure speculators..."
That's why Dominik was very proud to tell everybody on Twitter when IOTA for a moment was the most traded currency:
https://twitter.com/domschiener/status/938062130926014465?lang=de
I mean - who do you think were the people who did that? Right - speculators. If you don't want speculators - don't let your coin be listed on an exchange maybe? The truth is: they want speculators, they need speculators, but it's cooler to bash them.

lambtho: "There is literally NO WAY TO GET SCAMMED if you do the proper research and ask people for advice before investing."
Pretty bold statement considering there are hundreds, if not thousands of people that got scammed. I for myself did 2-3 hours of researching about the wallet and the seed, but still ended on the phishing site. 

lambtho: "It is quite clear and written in every official or reliable community sources that the online seed generators should not be used."
That's wrong. One of the reasons I ended on the phishing site was iotasupport.com. http://web.archive.org/web/20171206124148/https://iotasupport.com/gui-newseed.shtml
It stated: "If you don't know where/how to run these commands, you can use an online generator"

lambtho: "You did not pay for anything, just bought token from someone who bought them before you... You are not investors, just speculators. Basically you did nothing for the project, but somehow expect that they should be entitled to you.
Also you did not pay for his product, just give your money to someone else in hope that it will be profitable. Stop acting like you are a business angel or doing them a favor when you buy the coins ffs !"
Is it you, Dominik/David? If there were only those handful nerds you're talking about invested into IOTA, IOTA would be dead already. NO Volkswagen, no Bosch, no 6 billion market cap, no changing of the world, nothing.







Edited Last Year by MisterBrot
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MisterBrot - 25 Jan 2018
Hello lambtho,

since you're a very active member in the IOTA community, perhaps you can answer these questions. Yesterday, somebody calling himself "FibbonaccisRabbit" was here to defend IOTA and blaming the users solely like you are now and promised to come back to answer these questions, but never did unfortunately.

Since you seem to have a much better understanding of the technology than most of us, maybe you can help us in answering some questions:
1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?
2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
3) If the snapshot on January 28th takes place: what happens to all accounts that have no value in them left?
3a) hacked accounts
3b) Hacker accounts, that have no funds left, because they have been forwarded
4) Is it possible to restore the history of these accounts COMPLETELY?
5) Will it have to be done manually? If so, what has do be done by us? And what happens to the accounts of the thief, who probably won't manually restore his used ones without any Iotas left on them? (Why should he?)
6) Will PENDING TRANSACTIONS be restorable after the snapshot? Pending transactions are another important proof in this criminal case. I've got like 30-40 pending transactions initiated by the thief in my wallet. I've got a pending transaction of MYSELF back from December in my wallet, that proves, that I've tried to move part of my funds to another seed of mine that wasn't generated by an online seed generator. That transaction is still pending, never came through and I am very pissed about it, because those funds I've tried to move are stolen, too!
And there are people who were able to stop the robbery of their accounts bei double spending (they were able to send their IOTAs to a different seed, before the pending transactions of the thief were confirmed). They have those pending transactions of the thief in their wallet and those addresses of the thief are pieces of evidence in this criminal case.

Thank you very much for your contribution!

Furthermore, there are some things that need to be clarified.

lambtho: "So, even though they are not responsible for what happened, the sympathies and do their best to gather intel about the scammer."
What are they doing right now? Nobody ever came here and contacted the victims. Nobody ever tried to tell us, what exactly they're trying to do. I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?

lambtho: "They hate the people that are only pure speculators..."
That's why Dominik was very proud to tell everybody on Twitter when IOTA for a moment was the most traded currency:
https://twitter.com/domschiener/status/938062130926014465?lang=de
I mean - who do you think were the people who did that? Right - speculators. If you don't want speculators - don't let your coin be listed on an exchange maybe? The truth is: they want speculators, they need speculators, but it's cooler to bash them.

lambtho: "There is literally NO WAY TO GET SCAMMED if you do the proper research and ask people for advice before investing."
Pretty bold statement considering there are hundreds, if not thousands of people that got scammed. I for myself did 2-3 hours of researching about the wallet and the seed, but still ended on the phishing site. 

lambtho: "It is quite clear and written in every official or reliable community sources that the online seed generators should not be used."
That's wrong. One of the reasons I ended on the phishing site was iotasupport.com. http://web.archive.org/web/20171206124148/https://iotasupport.com/gui-newseed.shtml
It stated: "If you don't know where/how to run these commands, you can use an online generator"

lambtho: "You did not pay for anything, just bought token from someone who bought them before you... You are not investors, just speculators. Basically you did nothing for the project, but somehow expect that they should be entitled to you.
Also you did not pay for his product, just give your money to someone else in hope that it will be profitable. Stop acting like you are a business angel or doing them a favor when you buy the coins ffs !"
Is it you, Dominik/David? If there were only those handful nerds you're talking about invested into IOTA, IOTA would be dead already. NO Volkswagen, no Bosch, no 6 billion market cap, no changing of the world, nothing.







@MisterBrot
These are very good questions, and I'm sure that lots of people also have the same questions/concerns. Thanks for asking them! Let's break them down one by one.  
------------------------------------------

"1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?"
Yep. That's what we're doing here as we compile a list of addresses in the OP. Hopefully some community members have started making exchanges aware of these addresses so that they can be caught in the appropriate net when the funds go to be laundered.

2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
It is not possible to censor addresses from transacting. Being a permissionless distributed ledger, nobody has control over who can and can't transact on the ledger. This is the #1 best feature of distributed ledgers.

"3) If the snapshot on January 28th takes place: what happens to all accounts that have no value in them left?"
The current ledger will be updated to remove the zero value addresses from the database that must be stored by full nodes. There are a bunch of services, primarily both tangle explorers, which save the complete history of all databases, so everyone is able to look back through the entire history of transactions. As such, a snapshot has no impact at all on the current situation. This is a great question though, and hopefully it helps everyone to understand what a snapshot is and how it works. Here's some more reading on snapshots:
What is a snapshot? https://forum.helloiota.com/628/What-is-a-snapshot
How to prepare for a snapshot? https://forum.helloiota.com/4659/How-do-I-prepare-for-a-snapshot

"4) Is it possible to restore the history of these accounts COMPLETELY? "
Theoretically, yes. If law enforcement agencies are able to track down the thief and recover the stolen funds, I guess they could be returned to the victims, right? I'm not sure exactly how the legal process would play out though. Others here can probably expand upon that answer.

"5) Will it have to be done manually? If so, what has do be done by us? And what happens to the accounts of the thief, who probably won't manually restore his used ones without any Iotas left on them? (Why should he?)"
This question seems to imply the desire to reset account balances. Again, in a distributed ledger, the entire point is that nobody has control over the ledger, and therefore you get immutability and finality as soon as a transaction is confirmed. It takes a super majority of the network to reverse transactions, so technically if you convinced 90% (arbitrarily large number) of the full nodes to accept a new database with altered account balances, it would be possible to manually "reset" balances to whatever one deemed to be correct.

"6) Will PENDING TRANSACTIONS be restorable after the snapshot? Pending transactions are another important proof in this criminal case. I've got like 30-40 pending transactions initiated by the thief in my wallet. I've got a pending transaction of MYSELF back from December in my wallet, that proves, that I've tried to move part of my funds to another seed of mine that wasn't generated by an online seed generator. That transaction is still pending, never came through and I am very pissed about it, because those funds I've tried to move are stolen, too!
And there are people who were able to stop the robbery of their accounts bei double spending (they were able to send their IOTAs to a different seed, before the pending transactions of the thief were confirmed). They have those pending transactions of the thief in their wallet and those addresses of the thief are pieces of evidence in this criminal case."
All pre-snapshot transactions will show up on the tangle explorers, pending and confirmed. Also, many of the thousands of community members who run full nodes can (and do) easily just save their old databases. There are hundreds-thousands of these copies. It needs to be stressed that the snapshot is a non-issue in this situation.

Furthermore, there are some things that need to be clarified.
lambtho: "So, even though they are not responsible for what happened, the sympathies and do their best to gather intel about the scammer."
What are they doing right now? Nobody ever came here and contacted the victims. Nobody ever tried to tell us, what exactly they're trying to do. I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?
The IOTA Foundation will work closely with any law enforcement agencies who reach out to them. The IF will certainly provide whatever information they can in order to help the legal cases to progress. It's important to avoid spreading rumors to the contrary, as doing so unnecessarily complicates and inflames the situation.

Here's a direct quote from David in today's interview:
"I completely sympathize with the people that have lost their funds. We are doing everything we can in order to gather information to track down whoever this scumbag is, but of course, that is not easy, and we’ve seen before that it is borderline impossible.
But, if we are able to dig up any kind of information that will lead to something, we will, of course, hand that over to the police and assist with any kind of investigation that will happen in order to try to help these poor people that have lost their funds.
...
What we’re doing right now is gathering all the intel we can, we’re looking through all of the different leads that we have. In such situations, the community starts doing their own investigations, become the detectives out looking for clues–looking for IP addresses, seeing if this person has been in the community for a long time, if there is any correlation between these things.
We are trying to get an overview because it’s all very chaotic, and this is still ongoing, but that’s pretty much all we can do. All we can do is look through all of the information that is available to us, and of course report it to the registered domains, see if we can find some IP addresses."
Source: https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/iota-founder-stolen-funds-lots-people-will-screw/

We need to be spreading this quote instead of misinformation and rumors.

------------------------------------
Again, thanks for the questions. The more, the better, so please keep them coming. This is how knowledge is built.

Edited Last Year by Winston
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Winston - 25 Jan 2018
MisterBrot - 25 Jan 2018
Hello lambtho,

since you're a very active member in the IOTA community, perhaps you can answer these questions. Yesterday, somebody calling himself "FibbonaccisRabbit" was here to defend IOTA and blaming the users solely like you are now and promised to come back to answer these questions, but never did unfortunately.

Since you seem to have a much better understanding of the technology than most of us, maybe you can help us in answering some questions:
1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?
2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
3) If the snapshot on January 28th takes place: what happens to all accounts that have no value in them left?
3a) hacked accounts
3b) Hacker accounts, that have no funds left, because they have been forwarded
4) Is it possible to restore the history of these accounts COMPLETELY?
5) Will it have to be done manually? If so, what has do be done by us? And what happens to the accounts of the thief, who probably won't manually restore his used ones without any Iotas left on them? (Why should he?)
6) Will PENDING TRANSACTIONS be restorable after the snapshot? Pending transactions are another important proof in this criminal case. I've got like 30-40 pending transactions initiated by the thief in my wallet. I've got a pending transaction of MYSELF back from December in my wallet, that proves, that I've tried to move part of my funds to another seed of mine that wasn't generated by an online seed generator. That transaction is still pending, never came through and I am very pissed about it, because those funds I've tried to move are stolen, too!
And there are people who were able to stop the robbery of their accounts bei double spending (they were able to send their IOTAs to a different seed, before the pending transactions of the thief were confirmed). They have those pending transactions of the thief in their wallet and those addresses of the thief are pieces of evidence in this criminal case.

Thank you very much for your contribution!

Furthermore, there are some things that need to be clarified.

lambtho: "So, even though they are not responsible for what happened, the sympathies and do their best to gather intel about the scammer."
What are they doing right now? Nobody ever came here and contacted the victims. Nobody ever tried to tell us, what exactly they're trying to do. I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?

lambtho: "They hate the people that are only pure speculators..."
That's why Dominik was very proud to tell everybody on Twitter when IOTA for a moment was the most traded currency:
https://twitter.com/domschiener/status/938062130926014465?lang=de
I mean - who do you think were the people who did that? Right - speculators. If you don't want speculators - don't let your coin be listed on an exchange maybe? The truth is: they want speculators, they need speculators, but it's cooler to bash them.

lambtho: "There is literally NO WAY TO GET SCAMMED if you do the proper research and ask people for advice before investing."
Pretty bold statement considering there are hundreds, if not thousands of people that got scammed. I for myself did 2-3 hours of researching about the wallet and the seed, but still ended on the phishing site. 

lambtho: "It is quite clear and written in every official or reliable community sources that the online seed generators should not be used."
That's wrong. One of the reasons I ended on the phishing site was iotasupport.com. http://web.archive.org/web/20171206124148/https://iotasupport.com/gui-newseed.shtml
It stated: "If you don't know where/how to run these commands, you can use an online generator"

lambtho: "You did not pay for anything, just bought token from someone who bought them before you... You are not investors, just speculators. Basically you did nothing for the project, but somehow expect that they should be entitled to you.
Also you did not pay for his product, just give your money to someone else in hope that it will be profitable. Stop acting like you are a business angel or doing them a favor when you buy the coins ffs !"
Is it you, Dominik/David? If there were only those handful nerds you're talking about invested into IOTA, IOTA would be dead already. NO Volkswagen, no Bosch, no 6 billion market cap, no changing of the world, nothing.







@MisterBrot
These are very good questions, and I'm sure that lots of people also have the same questions/concerns. Thanks for asking them! Let's break them down one by one.  
------------------------------------------

"1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?"
Yep. That's what we're doing here as we compile a list of addresses in the OP. Hopefully some community members have started making exchanges aware of these addresses so that they can be caught in the appropriate net when the funds go to be laundered.

2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
It is not possible to censor addresses from transacting. Being a permissionless distributed ledger, nobody has control over who can and can't transact on the ledger. This is the #1 best feature of distributed ledgers.

"3) If the snapshot on January 28th takes place: what happens to all accounts that have no value in them left?"
The current ledger will be updated to remove the zero value addresses from the database that must be stored by full nodes. There are a bunch of services, primarily both tangle explorers, which save the complete history of all databases, so everyone is able to look back through the entire history of transactions. As such, a snapshot has no impact at all on the current situation. This is a great question though, and hopefully it helps everyone to understand what a snapshot is and how it works. Here's some more reading on snapshots:
What is a snapshot? https://forum.helloiota.com/628/What-is-a-snapshot
How to prepare for a snapshot? https://forum.helloiota.com/4659/How-do-I-prepare-for-a-snapshot

"4) Is it possible to restore the history of these accounts COMPLETELY? "
Theoretically, yes. If law enforcement agencies are able to track down the thief and recover the stolen funds, I guess they could be returned to the victims, right? I'm not sure exactly how the legal process would play out though. Others here can probably expand upon that answer.

"5) Will it have to be done manually? If so, what has do be done by us? And what happens to the accounts of the thief, who probably won't manually restore his used ones without any Iotas left on them? (Why should he?)"
This question seems to imply the desire to reset account balances. Again, in a distributed ledger, the entire point is that nobody has control over the ledger, and therefore you get immutability and finality as soon as a transaction is confirmed. It takes a super majority of the network to reverse transactions, so technically if you convinced 90% (arbitrarily large number) of the full nodes to accept a new database with altered account balances, it would be possible to manually "reset" balances to whatever one deemed to be correct.

"6) Will PENDING TRANSACTIONS be restorable after the snapshot? Pending transactions are another important proof in this criminal case. I've got like 30-40 pending transactions initiated by the thief in my wallet. I've got a pending transaction of MYSELF back from December in my wallet, that proves, that I've tried to move part of my funds to another seed of mine that wasn't generated by an online seed generator. That transaction is still pending, never came through and I am very pissed about it, because those funds I've tried to move are stolen, too!
And there are people who were able to stop the robbery of their accounts bei double spending (they were able to send their IOTAs to a different seed, before the pending transactions of the thief were confirmed). They have those pending transactions of the thief in their wallet and those addresses of the thief are pieces of evidence in this criminal case."
All pre-snapshot transactions will show up on the tangle explorers, pending and confirmed. Also, many of the thousands of community members who run full nodes can (and do) easily just save their old databases. There are hundreds-thousands of these copies. It needs to be stressed that the snapshot is a non-issue in this situation.

Furthermore, there are some things that need to be clarified.
lambtho: "So, even though they are not responsible for what happened, the sympathies and do their best to gather intel about the scammer."
What are they doing right now? Nobody ever came here and contacted the victims. Nobody ever tried to tell us, what exactly they're trying to do. I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?
The IOTA Foundation will work closely with any law enforcement agencies who reach out to them. The IF will certainly provide whatever information they can in order to help the legal cases to progress. It's important to avoid spreading rumors to the contrary, as doing so unnecessarily complicates and inflames the situation.

Here's a direct quote from David in today's interview:
"I completely sympathize with the people that have lost their funds. We are doing everything we can in order to gather information to track down whoever this scumbag is, but of course, that is not easy, and we’ve seen before that it is borderline impossible.
But, if we are able to dig up any kind of information that will lead to something, we will, of course, hand that over to the police and assist with any kind of investigation that will happen in order to try to help these poor people that have lost their funds.
...
What we’re doing right now is gathering all the intel we can, we’re looking through all of the different leads that we have. In such situations, the community starts doing their own investigations, become the detectives out looking for clues–looking for IP addresses, seeing if this person has been in the community for a long time, if there is any correlation between these things.
We are trying to get an overview because it’s all very chaotic, and this is still ongoing, but that’s pretty much all we can do. All we can do is look through all of the information that is available to us, and of course report it to the registered domains, see if we can find some IP addresses."
Source: https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/iota-founder-stolen-funds-lots-people-will-screw/

We need to be spreading this quote instead of misinformation and rumors.

------------------------------------
Again, thanks for the questions. The more, the better, so please keep them coming. This is how knowledge is built.

Done!
https://twitter.com/CryptoooHamster/status/956609042029449218
We also should spread this one from Dom:
https://twitter.com/DomSchiener/status/955134744034971648

Reddit post for r/IOTA is in the making. Auto-Moderator devoured it, but I think it will be approved by mods "soon"... 

Thanks @Winston for being so incredibly dedicated and calm and objective and always helping everyone in such a very polite and friendly manner when many others would not. You truly are the heart and soul (and brain of course ;-) of this forum!



I wouldn't be able to help anyone without thetangle.org-explorer. If you feel like you want to support its developer Mathieu Viossat in maintaining his service, please consider a donation to the address shown here: https://thetangle.org/about. Thank you!
Winston
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MisterBrot - 25 Jan 2018
Winston - 25 Jan 2018

------------------------------------------

"1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?"
Yep. That's what we're doing here as we compile a list of addresses in the OP. Hopefully some community members have started making exchanges aware of these addresses so that they can be caught in the appropriate net when the funds go to be laundered.

2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
It is not possible to censor addresses from transacting. Being a permissionless distributed ledger, nobody has control over who can and can't transact on the ledger. This is the #1 best feature of distributed ledgers.

"3) If the snapshot on January 28th takes place: what happens to all accounts that have no value in them left?"
The current ledger will be updated to remove the zero value addresses from the database that must be stored by full nodes. There are a bunch of services, primarily both tangle explorers, which save the complete history of all databases, so everyone is able to look back through the entire history of transactions. As such, a snapshot has no impact at all on the current situation. This is a great question though, and hopefully it helps everyone to understand what a snapshot is and how it works. Here's some more reading on snapshots:
What is a snapshot? https://forum.helloiota.com/628/What-is-a-snapshot
How to prepare for a snapshot? https://forum.helloiota.com/4659/How-do-I-prepare-for-a-snapshot

"4) Is it possible to restore the history of these accounts COMPLETELY? "
Theoretically, yes. If law enforcement agencies are able to track down the thief and recover the stolen funds, I guess they could be returned to the victims, right? I'm not sure exactly how the legal process would play out though. Others here can probably expand upon that answer.

"5) Will it have to be done manually? If so, what has do be done by us? And what happens to the accounts of the thief, who probably won't manually restore his used ones without any Iotas left on them? (Why should he?)"
This question seems to imply the desire to reset account balances. Again, in a distributed ledger, the entire point is that nobody has control over the ledger, and therefore you get immutability and finality as soon as a transaction is confirmed. It takes a super majority of the network to reverse transactions, so technically if you convinced 90% (arbitrarily large number) of the full nodes to accept a new database with altered account balances, it would be possible to manually "reset" balances to whatever one deemed to be correct.

"6) Will PENDING TRANSACTIONS be restorable after the snapshot? Pending transactions are another important proof in this criminal case. I've got like 30-40 pending transactions initiated by the thief in my wallet. I've got a pending transaction of MYSELF back from December in my wallet, that proves, that I've tried to move part of my funds to another seed of mine that wasn't generated by an online seed generator. That transaction is still pending, never came through and I am very pissed about it, because those funds I've tried to move are stolen, too!
And there are people who were able to stop the robbery of their accounts bei double spending (they were able to send their IOTAs to a different seed, before the pending transactions of the thief were confirmed). They have those pending transactions of the thief in their wallet and those addresses of the thief are pieces of evidence in this criminal case."
All pre-snapshot transactions will show up on the tangle explorers, pending and confirmed. Also, many of the thousands of community members who run full nodes can (and do) easily just save their old databases. There are hundreds-thousands of these copies. It needs to be stressed that the snapshot is a non-issue in this situation.

Furthermore, there are some things that need to be clarified.
lambtho: "So, even though they are not responsible for what happened, the sympathies and do their best to gather intel about the scammer."
What are they doing right now? Nobody ever came here and contacted the victims. Nobody ever tried to tell us, what exactly they're trying to do. I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?
The IOTA Foundation will work closely with any law enforcement agencies who reach out to them. The IF will certainly provide whatever information they can in order to help the legal cases to progress. It's important to avoid spreading rumors to the contrary, as doing so unnecessarily complicates and inflames the situation.

Here's a direct quote from David in today's interview:
"I completely sympathize with the people that have lost their funds. We are doing everything we can in order to gather information to track down whoever this scumbag is, but of course, that is not easy, and we’ve seen before that it is borderline impossible.
But, if we are able to dig up any kind of information that will lead to something, we will, of course, hand that over to the police and assist with any kind of investigation that will happen in order to try to help these poor people that have lost their funds.
...
What we’re doing right now is gathering all the intel we can, we’re looking through all of the different leads that we have. In such situations, the community starts doing their own investigations, become the detectives out looking for clues–looking for IP addresses, seeing if this person has been in the community for a long time, if there is any correlation between these things.
We are trying to get an overview because it’s all very chaotic, and this is still ongoing, but that’s pretty much all we can do. All we can do is look through all of the information that is available to us, and of course report it to the registered domains, see if we can find some IP addresses."
Source: https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/iota-founder-stolen-funds-lots-people-will-screw/

We need to be spreading this quote instead of misinformation and rumors.

------------------------------------
Again, thanks for the questions. The more, the better, so please keep them coming. This is how knowledge is built.

Hello Winston,

thank you for your answer.

"1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?"
Yep. That's what we're doing here as we compile a list of addresses in the OP. Hopefully some community members have started making exchanges aware of these addresses so that they can be caught in the appropriate net when the funds go to be laundered.
I wasn't talking about marking them here in a forum and trying to let them block by exchanges. I was talking about marking the funds by the IOTA Coordinator/full nodes themselves. Like they did last October when they moved funds from their rightful owners onto an account hold by IOTA Foundation to protect their users. If they were able to mark those funds that were in danger of getting hacked, they should be able to mark specific funds on addresses that belong to the thief now, shouldn't they?

2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
It is not possible to censor addresses from transacting. Being a permissionless distributed ledger, nobody has control over who can and can't transact on the ledger. This is the #1 best feature of distributed ledgers.
You can't change the code that no one can ever verify transactions from specific addresses? Or to prevent the addresses of the thief to verify other transactions, which would result in the same as far as I understand: the thief not being able to make a transaction? If anybody is willing to do this, is another question - but is it theoretically impossible? 
Or if all full nodes agree to not letting specific addresses attach to the tangle - what happens? At the moment there aren't that many full nodes, IOTA isn't really decentralized yet.

3) - 6) Regarding the snapshot: I've read this article:
https://medium.com/@ralf/prepare-for-the-january-28-2018-iota-snapshot-10f565b371ab
and it clearly states:

"Now, with much of the transaction history on the Tangle gone due to snapshotting, your wallet might not be able to reconstruct this “address history” on its own. In fact, even the first request from the wallet to the node might fail, as the node might no longer know this address. The wallet will stop the process and assume a balance of zero.
This is, why you have to help with some manual support.
Here is what you want to do:
Before the snapshot
Log into the official IOTA wallet with your seed. Go to HISTORY. Copy
a) the address of the first transaction ever made,
b) the address of the most recent address ever made and
c) the total number of addresses and
..."

And - that's why I've asked:
"Transactions in pending state prior to the snapshot will get removed during snapshotting."

So who's right? Do users have to do anything to save every piece of evidence like Ralf Rottmann writes or will everything still be there after the snapshot like you said?

I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?
The IOTA Foundation will work closely with any law enforcement agencies who reach out to them. The IF will certainly provide whatever information they can in order to help the legal cases to progress. It's important to avoid spreading rumors to the contrary, as doing so unnecessarily complicates and inflames the situation.
It's not a rumour or "misinformation". If you refuse talking to the police, it doesn't look like you're interested in fully cooperating with them. That interview is PR - their actions are important right now. And they're telling something different than that interview. That tweet of Dominik sounds good, though. There is a little hope left.

@MisterBrot
Excellent follow ups. Let's take each one individually again. The alternating bold - italic - bold format that I'm using to demarcate the flow of conversation feels like it could work. Hopefully it's not too hard on the eyes.
-----------------------------
 
MisterBrot: "1) Is it possible to MARK funds that are on thiefs accounts right now like the Iota Foundation marked funds back in October?"
Winston: Yep. That's what we're doing here as we compile a list of addresses in the OP. Hopefully some community members have started making exchanges aware of these addresses so that they can be caught in the appropriate net when the funds go to be laundered.
MisterBrot: "I wasn't talking about marking them here in a forum and trying to let them block by exchanges. I was talking about marking the funds by the IOTA Coordinator/full nodes themselves. Like they did last October when they moved funds from their rightful owners onto an account hold by IOTA Foundation to protect their users. If they were able to mark those funds that were in danger of getting hacked, they should be able to mark specific funds on addresses that belong to the thief now, shouldn't they?"

This is another fantastic question, and it opens the door to some really interesting nuances of this situation.

The situation back in October involved the reuse of addresses.
Aside: Here's a quick article explaining how addresses work in IOTA, which I highly recommend - great read! https://iotasupport.com/how-addresses-are-used-in-IOTA.shtml
When someone sends funds into an address, sends an outgoing transaction, and then sends funds back into that same address, this address is considered "reused". This is highly discouraged since Winternitz OTS publishes a random 50% of the private key with each spend from the same address. Spend once from each address and you're completely safe. But send funds back into that address, and people start spinning up their computers trying to brute force the remaining 50% of that address's private key in an effort to sign a transaction that moves that address's balance into the attacker's possession.

The nuance in this scenario, as it relates to ability of the IOTA Foundation to intervene, is that it's trivial to determine which addresses have been reused with 100% certainty. You simply look at the list of all addresses in ledger, run a script that finds any address that has an input-output-input, and you now have every reused address. The Foundation could then save those at risk balances by moving them into a safe new address. The next nuance in this scenario is that the original owner of each balance could easily prove their ownership of those reused addresses by simply signing a hash with their old seed. This is why the reclaim tool works ("works" for those who were able to get every step confirmed. But that's an entirely separate headache) so well - because when you prove your ownership of your old balance, you were the only one with that seed, and there's no gray area. You then get your funds back, and everything continues as usual.

The difference between the October situation and the January situation is that the January situation involves multiple parties who both/all "own" the balances in question. It's exceedingly difficult to prove who actually owns the balance if multiple parties can all sign a transaction out of the same address. This is why security is such a big deal in cryptocurrency. Seed ownership is proof of balance ownership. Another nuance here is that it's impossible to run through the ledger and mark stolen balances from the January situation. Remember that back in October all it took was a simple script to find addresses that met the input-output-input criterion. But now, there's no such script. The process of flagging addresses is totally reliant on people self-reporting what they suspect to be stolen balances. I'm inclined to speculate that there's actually no way to prove that any individual address has been stolen other than by undergoing a full legal process, finding the thief, and then tracing transactions backwards through the tangle from the thief's known information at that time. Further complicating this situation is the fact that there are a few addresses being reported that were stolen months ago, and it's likely that a few addresses reported were victims of address reuse.

So instead of being able to run an objective script that could flag the relevant addresses, you'd have to vet each address that's being self-reported by using an extremely time intensive and complicated checklist to make sure that each address even meets the threshold for being potentially stolen. After that exhaustive process, you'd then have to turn the situation over to legal authorities who would put the addresses through a rigorous legal process with a ton of even more complicated intricacies to prove ownership of everything. Even with all of that, it seems like you'd need to still catch the thief, right? 

All of that to say, the October and January situations are actually very different. The January situation doesn't lend itself to the same actions that were taken back during the comparatively simple October event.


MisterBrot: 2) If that's the case: is it possible to STOP those funds being moved again, f.e. by letting those seeds not attach to the tangle? Stopping further transactions made by the thief is important, so that he can't sell those IOTAs and he can't disguise their origin.
Winston: It is not possible to censor addresses from transacting. Being a permissionless distributed ledger, nobody has control over who can and can't transact on the ledger. This is the #1 best feature of distributed ledgers.
MisterBrot: You can't change the code that no one can ever verify transactions from specific addresses? Or to prevent the addresses of the thief to verify other transactions, which would result in the same as far as I understand: the thief not being able to make a transaction? If anybody is willing to do this, is another question - but is it theoretically impossible?
Or if all full nodes agree to not letting specific addresses attach to the tangle - what happens? At the moment there aren't that many full nodes, IOTA isn't really decentralized yet.

This would probably require either rewriting IRI or writing a pretty in-depth program that would blacklist certain addresses. As mentioned in the above answer, these addresses haven't been verified as being stolen, and there's no foreseeable way to reasonably do so. So after writing your own IRI/program to blacklist addresses, you'd have to lobby the community to use your version of IRI and convince every full node to implement these changes with the intention of banning certain addresses from participating in transactions. Theoretically possible obviously, but that's a huge task with extremely low likelihood of success. It'll undoubtedly be tough to convince every node operator to make IOTA into a semi-permissioned ledger based on a blacklist that hasn't been rigorously verified.
 



3) - 6) Regarding the snapshot: I've read this article:
https://medium.com/@ralf/prepare-for-the-january-28-2018-iota-snapshot-10f565b371ab
and it clearly states:
"Now, with much of the transaction history on the Tangle gone due to snapshotting, your wallet might not be able to reconstruct this “address history” on its own. In fact, even the first request from the wallet to the node might fail, as the node might no longer know this address. The wallet will stop the process and assume a balance of zero.
This is, why you have to help with some manual support.
Here is what you want to do:
Before the snapshot
Log into the official IOTA wallet with your seed. Go to HISTORY. Copy
a) the address of the first transaction ever made,
b) the address of the most recent address ever made and
c) the total number of addresses and
..."
And - that's why I've asked:
"Transactions in pending state prior to the snapshot will get removed during snapshotting."
So who's right? You or Ralf Rottmann?

Both of these people are right. Individual light wallets are dependent on public light wallet hosts in order to access the IOTA ledger. After the snapshot, all full nodes (light wallet hosts) will be using the updated ledger which won't include any addresses with 0 balances. This does remove all pending transactions from your light wallet.

The important distinction to make here is that, while your individual light wallet doesn't show the full history anymore, you can obtain a copy of the old database from any of the full nodes who save it (remember, these are people just like you, I, and Ralf). People are happy to provide this information. You can reconstruct the entire history of the tangle by piecing together these old databases. But as I mentioned in my previous correspondence, you can simplify this whole thing by just using the tangle explorers. The explorers have a history of all old databases, and specialize in piecing all of them together. You'll be able to explore the entire history of the tangle in explorers (as you can do now) after the snapshot. You won't be able to see the pending and zero balance history in your light wallet.

I've even heard, they are not really cooperating with the police. So it's not that far fetched to assume, they're not doing anything, right?
The IOTA Foundation will work closely with any law enforcement agencies who reach out to them. The IF will certainly provide whatever information they can in order to help the legal cases to progress. It's important to avoid spreading rumors to the contrary, as doing so unnecessarily complicates and inflames the situation.
It's not a rumour or "misinformation". If you refuse talking to the police, it doesn't look like you're interested in fully cooperating with them. That interview is PR - their actions are important right now. And they're telling something different than that interview.
I'm only capable of looking at the official statements out of the IOTA Foundation. Those statements have made it clear that efforts are being put forth to both collaborate with, and lead a legal process on behalf of the fraud victims.
Sources:
https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/iota-founder-stolen-funds-lots-people-will-screw/
https://twitter.com/DomSchiener/status/955134744034971648

That interview is PR - their actions are important right now. And they're telling something different than that interview.
The implication of the above statement is that the Foundation is outright lying in their public statements. They publicly state that they are collecting information on the fraud, complying with authorities, and even filing a case on behalf of the victims (via sources linked above). I guess I'm confused as to the claim being made in the above bolded statement. If someone has insider information that suggests that the Foundation is lying, that would be great to expose to the general public. I'm not aware of such things, but I'm a simple onlooker.
 

-----
To the readers out there: Please let us know if this dialogue is helpful, and please keep the questions coming. The more, the better, as always.
 
 
Edited Last Year by Winston
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My stolen IOTAs now are here:

HDPXXRYGHCFWYRQMFLWMGENEJQNUJUWPHWXXUSHEOJUXRFZBUKYXWKKNBEHFIB9QIEDEAECADOXPYHDIBGTEOPYLSD - 22 gi

QYWKHLLNAIJZPRQACQRJZDUELBZSZYWZJXNUFJYDDNETAQHZNNLMYDQCDKF9OGDBTJVUSMSSVGRPOSCHBLIEASTVYC - 24 gi

YVJXACNSAHUWOKTXIOBTGPFKBRTXMQIOZGGNZCTYYNZYJINO9JRRKAGIQJLJQUGMDYQBSBUK9WFFRMCNWWXBR9AXBX - 22 gi

QNYWNEQKFILBHQCAB9N9LTDVHKKURTOUBNCMIVYGDAPKH9AVIUFFCPO99RBMD99AEUFUZDNAL9YDSQYCWWKCIGHKLD - 482 Mi
MisterBrot
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lambtho - 26 Jan 2018
MisterBrot - 26 Jan 2018
lambtho - 26 Jan 2018
Thannks @Winston for stepping in and provinding excellent answers to @MisterBrot 's excellent questions. I would have not done it any better.

I also want to point that the [archive version](https://web.archive.org/web/20171206124148/https://iotasupport.com/gui-newseed.shtml) of iotasupport stating
If you don't know where/how to run these commands, you can use an online generator

also gives, just under this line, two perfectly fine seed generatos. So, no one ever advised iotaseed as a reliable service.



Hello lambtho,

while I agree with you, that this archived version doesn't link to iota seed.io, it still states: "you can use AN online generator". Not "you can use ONE OF THESE online generators linked below, beware of everything else".
Considering the huge amount of victims (and we're seeing only the top of the iceberg now, I guess) you should really think about holding all of us for plain stupid.
As I said, I've done 2-3 hours of researching how to use the wallet and still ended there.
In hindsight, it would have been possible to avoid this mistake if researching any further. But that's the problem: if there is no warning to use online generators on the "how to generate a seed" webpage, you simply don't come up with the idea to check it any further at that moment. Especially, if it already takes a lot of time to understand how to get a wallet and how the wallet itself works.
Furthermore, I've tried to move funds from that address only a week later, because I've had a bad feeling - and that transaction never was confirmed! It's still pending. When realizing those network problems my main worries were that my IOTAs that I try to move stay put in some kind of data nirvana (even if only temporary), so I've left them where they were and decided to wait for improvements and the new wallet. If the IOTA network had worked correctly in December, I wouldn't have lost 3,2 Gi right now - that's a sad truth!


First of all, it is clearly stated everywhere that IOTA is in beta, so remarks like "if IOTA network worked correctly" are completely irrelevant as you were warned it may experience issues. But anyway, once again,the unability to move funds is not due to tangle issues or I don't know, but your lack of knowledge about how the wallet works. I made at least ten transactions in december using a light wallet and connecting to sync nodes, then reattaching and promoting transactions every 20 mins. Usually after maximum 3 reattaches all transactions went through. I got some today in less than 5 minutes.

For the iotasupport matter, starting to play on the words by saying that they advised to use A seed gen, and not THIS seedgen is childish to me. Also, this is a community run website and has no link to the fundation. I assume they already feel bad for not stressing enough on that matter, so there is no need to try to put down people that do it just to help others, imo.

I understand that you are pissed off, but you should focus your anger on the scammer and not on everyone but him !



Hello lambtho,

"First of all, it is clearly stated everywhere that IOTA is in beta"
Seems like staying in beta status like forever is the new superior strategy to sugarcoat all bugs and user unfriendliness. IOTA is in beta status since April 2016!
Once again: if you only want a handful nerds as investors that hang around in IOTA Discord channels all day - don't let yourself be listed on exchanges! Don't go to "ARD Morgenmagazin"! Don't tell everybody you're a much better technology than Bitcoin, Ethereum and the whole rest, if you're not (at the moment)! Surely, in that case there'd be no Volkswagen, no Bosch, no 100k members in the IOTA subreddit, no 6 billion market cap.
But if you want more investors - people who believe in the idea of IOTA without knowing every technical detail - then stop being arrogant towards them! It's not that much effort to make IOTA and its documentation more userfriendly.

"For the iotasupport matter, starting to play on the words by saying that they advised to use A seed gen, and not THIS seedgen is childish to me."
It actually isn't. Especially, if after the hack people like you come along telling everybody that "The community warned as much as possible not to use online seed gen".
Well, I disagree. Perhaps you did in your Discord channel or even on Reddit. But not on websites that people actually get to if researching about storing their IOTAs for the first or second time. Heck, if googling anything about IOTA, iotasupport.com is almost always the highest ranked page! One of the reasons iota.org isn't the preffered site for information about IOTA is based on the fact that the official site prefers design over functionality and content.

"you should focus your anger on the scammer and not on everyone but him"
That's what we're doing actually. We want to find out who he is and ultimately our IOTAs back. But therefore we urgently need the cooperation of the IOTA Foundation.
We're like a grandma being robbed on a street, the thief running away towards a group of strong men and these men can now dedice to
a) stop the thief or
b) let him pass.
If they decide for b), Grandma still focuses her anger on the thief, but probably isn't verry happy about the behaviour of those men either.
GO

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